Talk:Garden of Eden
If someone could supply the info on Eden's whereabouts that would be an appreciated addition to this page (I'm pretty sure it's in Greece, but I can't just say that.) 67.171.143.74 23:37, 17 June 2006 (UTC) :Im pretty sure its unknown? :/ I've heard some theories about it being in russia or near the Caucasus but I can't say for sure.... Homestarmy 05:11, 18 June 2006 (UTC) ::Nobody's sure because while the Tigris and Euphrates rivers are well known locales, the other two rivers have stumped pretty much everyone. Using the Tigris and Euphrates as guides puts Eden in Mesopotamia or Iran. However, some believe the modern Tigris and Euphrates weren't the rivers referred to in Genesis, but were rivers formed during the Great Flood and named after the rivers referred to in the text. I've heard from several sources that it's likely that Eden has since been submerged. We'll never know for sure, but it makes for interesting wiki articles. ;-) abyssal_leviathin 05:25, 19 June 2006 (UTC) Abyssal's Comments/Objections *The article fails to note that the "Garden of Eden" exists only in popular speech, and Genesis refers to a garden planted in a place called Eden, rather than Eden being the name of the garden itself. *The article has an unfair Young Earth perspective bias, both the claims of the earth being "newly-made" and Adam and Eve being the first humans are debatable from both biblical and secular perspectives. *Personally I don't think the Serpent should be tied to closely to normal snake like we see in illustrated children's bibles. You could argue about whether or not the Serpent was just a snake or not. *No where in the text does it say anything about pain and suffering being given first after Eden, nor does it say that it was given as a reminder not to sin. *Death was not explicitly part of the curse, God said people would spend teir lives working the ground until they return to it, not "from now on you will die" *No mention is made of the Serpent's curse. abyssal_leviathin 05:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC) :I wondered about that "given as a reminder not to sin" part myself, and actually death is part of the curse, its just the verse is much later, you know, "The soul that sins, it shall die"? But whats wrong with a YEC perspective? Homestarmy 00:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC) ::I'm going to again disagree with death being part of the curse again even with that verse. That verse doesn't have anything to do with the Fall explicitly, and it obviously refers to spiritual death anyway. How else would it be possible for miscarriages to happen? ::As far as YECism goes, there's nothing wrong with explaining the position, but it shouldn't be the sole perspective of the article, which would violate the CPOV if you extend the not-favoring-denominations to include world views or doctrines. Maybe extending that is an error on my part, but it seems unfair to offer only one POV on what is one of the most controversial areas of Christian thought. ::As an aside, am I the only one who thinks that a lot of the content in this article would be better suited to a Fall of Man article? ::abyssal_leviathin 01:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC) :::The problem is, the CPOV policy isn't exactly fully developed yet, we were having a debate about it, but I think most of the editors just kind of stopped :/. I think we were supposed to get more into more specific issues, like asking questions concerning Jehovah's witnesses or LDS or whatnot, but I guess we just didn't get to it. So hey, you could come start it up again, i'd probably be there to discuss it with you anyway even if we're alone heh. But anyway, if you'd like to say that death is not yet explicitly mentioned in this exact section as a result of sin then I guess if its really not in Genesis around there that it's ok, and lastly, we could just merge the content into the fall of man article if its really missing things. Homestarmy 17:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC) ::::Ok first things: Abyssal you need to reread what you wrote. "And the ground shall be worked until it is returned to" That basically translates as "You shall work the ground until you die and return to it" otherwise it could be taken as "You shall work the ground until you atone and shall never ever die". Secondly the story of the Garden of Eden changes drastically between each and every bible so which one has the truth? 30% say that the Garden was in a place called Eden, 40% say it wasn't. The remaining say it was a special place on Earth that has walls around it. No bible seems to tell the same thing. Thirdly that statement on the page about it roughly being in the Mesopotamia area is false if you look up Mesopotamia on wikipedia it states it only connects to TWO of those rivers. And lastly I would just like to point out that the biggest loophole of all in christianity is the Garden as if it existed as the bible says then why has it not been found? God never said "You can never see nor enter the Garden again" He merely said they could not enter it and put a cherub(in some writings)at the door to guard it. So I ask you: Why spend so much time arguing about these small details when its all contradictory?